Being Happy, Agentic and Effective with Eric Nehrlich, Part 2

Continuing from last week, today we discuss the fascinating ideas from Eric Nehrlich’s book, challenging how we perceive problems and revealing the empowering potential of our choices. 

This episode takes you through Eric's unique journey from the corporate world to a coaching career, where he blends varied methodologies for life-changing results. Learn how to confront personal fears and make decisions that truly matter.

Don't miss out on the chance to gain insights that can redefine your approach to both personal and professional challenges.

Show Highlights:

• This is the only thing you can control [03:16]
• What is the meaning of accepting your reality? [09:49]
• Would you want your child to stay at a job he hates? [12:36]
• Discover a holistic approach towards coaching [14:31]
• Learn about Eric’s journey of coaching executives [19:52]
• Discover the real job of a coach [20:04]
• What are the unconscious fears that hold leaders back? [21:56]
• This is how you can get over your fears [25:32]

For more updates and my weekly newsletter, hop over to https://betterquestions.co/

To learn more about Eric Nehrlich, check out the websites below: 

https://www.toomanytrees.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/nehrlich

https://www.toomanytrees.com/book

Transcript:

0:09  Hey guys, welcome back. You're listening to the second part of last week's episode. Let's jump back in. Well, that's, um, that's a really nice transition to the book, which I want to talk about. So the book is called, you have a choice, which is so I want to ask about the book cover. You actually have it behind you. I've only, I only have this on my Kindle. When I bought the book, what I thought it was a picture of is a UFO beaming someone up into it. But it's a door, and someone walking into the door is that what's what's happening? It's actually the other way around. They are, they are walking out of a tunnel. They're walking out. They're walking out of a tunnel into the light. All right, so that's, that was the conceit. I mean, unfortunately, it's a little harder. People have also thought, Is it a lamp? Is a lamp like sitting down, or is it a pencil, like, But the cool part, all the metaphors work, all the meta, yeah, the pencil I didn't even see, but all the metaphors. All right, so I want to talk about this. It's you have these kind of two principles that you play with in the book, which are essentially the principle of like asking, How am I the problem? How are you the problem, right? And then you have this sort of sister principle of, you have a choice, right? So it's like you are both the problem, you also have a choice about that. So I want to start with those, and kind of use those jumping off points discuss some of the themes of the book. So let's start with, how are you the problem? Now, I came into this, I read that, and I was like, Absolutely, this is like, my I was immediately like, this is my book. I love this book. No one blames me more than me, but that's not so for people who are like, maybe they don't that doesn't necessarily immediately resonate them, with them. What do you mean when you say you want people to ask this question of, How am I the problem? Like, whatever my situation is, whatever I'm struggling with, we start with that. Why do you want people ask that? Or how do you want people to think about that?

2:13  Yeah, I mean, this starts from the principle that the only thing we really control is our next action. And, you know, like, the past has already happened. Like the stuff in the past has happened, like we can learn from it. But like, if we're spending our time going, like, well, things should have been different, and this should have happened national. Like, doesn't change it. Like, what are you gonna do differently? Then the future hasn't happened yet. Like, I can make my plans. I'm gonna have, like, I got my spreadsheet. I'm gonna say this is gonna happen, this and this and this and this and this. But like, all that can be thrown into disarray by a world event, like at the time I wrote the book, it was like during COVID times, I was like, Yeah, I had plans for my business was to go in 2020 let me tell you, it didn't go that way. The plans didn't matter. And all I could do was react to the situation, say, What am I going to do now? Right? So you can't change the past. You can't change the future. Only change now. And the other really important bit is you can't change other people. They make their own choices. So if you can't change other people, then it's really just you. And now are the things you control. And if that's the principle that underlies the book, the only thing you control is your next action. That's where you have a choice, and so to change the future outcomes you get, what are you going to do differently now, to get a different result, back to that principle, to get some place you never been, you got to do something you've never done. So that's where the How are you the problem comes into this because, like, Okay, what actions are you taking that are really enforcing or getting you into this situation? To use the example of your son with the chores, like, Hey, you put off your chores all week, and now it's the weekend. The problem is not that I gave you this rule that you have to do your chores, where you can go do play video games. I mean, you can blame me and say, that's the problem, but the problem is, you know, that's the rule, and you're not taking action on it. You're not doing something different. You're doing the same thing every week, so you have the same discussion every week. So that's kind of a great example. Like, how are you the problem? Like, your son could be doing the chores throughout the week. He chooses not to because he's busy doing other things. That's fine. But then there's consequences, right? And recognizing the consequences of our actions is what I really am trying to hammer home with that question, how are you the problem? I

4:17  think it's I really like this sort of call a mindset. Mindset is kind of a whatever what term. But I like that idea because I find it ultimately, it's incredibly empowering, right? Because it's not saying, literally, the only thing that affects you is yourself, like you said, use the example of COVID, right? You are affected by all kinds of stuff, but the only thing you can do about it is located in this what is that next action I'm going to take? Right? So just for it forces you to focus on the thing that is roots you in. The ability to change things, right? Gives you the power to do something about it, at least. Is, whatever is there? Yeah, and I want to reinforce that point, because I'm not blaming people for their situation. Because it sounds like, how, like that question sounds like it could be blaming and it could be victim blaming, and like, one thing I was tried to be thoughtful about in the book was recognized, like, I've got a lot of societal privilege. I'm male, I can pass as white, I can I'm heterosexual, like I'm older. Now it's like, I've got all the advantages going my way. And so things that work for me don't work for other people. So I'm not blaming somebody that's black or a woman of color in this society, they're not going to get the same chances I did. And there's actions they can take, acknowledging this is the system. Instead of just saying, Well, this system stacked against me. There's nothing I can do, right? I want them to say like, Okay, this employer, this boss, is very biased against me. Can I find another can I find another boss, one where I'm going to be more respected? Can I find another situation? What can I do from here that's going to change the outcomes, rather than fall back into a place of there's nothing I can do. The system is stacked against me, and so I have privileged checks throughout the book where I'm aware of why what I just said won't apply to everybody, right? And I probably missed some, and if I did, please let me know I'm happy to update that. But that was something that was very important to me to recognize, like you got a lot of tailwinds going for me, and I still think this is an empowering perspective for people to recognize the situation they're in and what they can do about it. I will

6:28  say too, like reading the book. You're not kidding. There are multiple points at which you're like, there's like a little checkpoint where you're like, a like little privilege checkpoint where you're saying, Hey, here's how my situation might differ from somebody else's situation. And I was very impressed by that, mostly because I think when people are like, hey, I want to acknowledge, you know, whatever it is, the privilege, or whatever kind of political thing they want to acknowledge, they kind of acknowledge it in the beginning, and then they're like, yeah, and then it's just the rest of the book that's like, they forgot that they ever said that. It never comes back again. And they're like, Yeah, I did that. I did that in the beginning. I said it. No one can yell at me on Twitter. I'm good now, you know. And they're like, on their thing, and you really do, like, it's a significant portion of the book to point out the differences in your experiences between maybe what other people might experience, a difference in how people might apply the same principle in different situations, right? And it's really, it's very refreshing. And it really, it kind of brings a different perspective onto it. But the kind of thing that you mentioned there of kind of acknowledging, you know, acknowledging, like, hey, this, you know, institutional, societal, structural stuff aside, any situation can be structured sort of against you, given whatever's going on, right? And so it kind of struck me. I noticed on your, you know, because your your background is your bookshelf, so it's like, and I like books, so I'm like, look at all your books, and you've got focusing by Eugene gendlin, which is like, up here, right? I think gen one there's has this, like, beautiful quote about how people can endure any reality because they're already enduring it, right? He's like, there's no truth. He could tell someone that's true, it's actually going to hurt them, because if it's true, that's what's already going on, and that he There already exists. So we can all kind of handle these things. And I think the the principle of saying, hey, just whatever your reality doesn't have to be fair. It just it is going to be what it is. How do you then use that in order to change things? I think, is very it's very powerful application of your principle. So I appreciate that. Yeah,

8:39  and to take a take a very specific example, like, it's an example from the book, so I can use it, but, like, I was one of my coaching clients who was complaining about their manager, and they're like, my manager should be supporting me. My manager should be backing me up. My manager should be doing this financial I would do that for the people reporting to me. Why is my manager not doing that for them? And I'm like, you've been working for this woman for two years. You have a lot of evidence now. Does she support you? Yeah, no. Does she back you up? No. Does she do anything that is indicates she's different for anybody but herself? No, you gotta update your situation. Yeah? Like, you gotta live in that reality and start acting like she's not gonna support you. Because you're just getting frustrated. You're like, she's, in some ways, she's just like your son, she's like, it's the same situation. You're doing the same thing and you're getting the same results, and you're frustrated by it, like, stop it, change what you do, acknowledge you're not going to get the support, and find other ways to get the support you need. And it's like, it's, it's one of the things where I like, I it's part of why I wrote the book. I'm saying this thing to so many people, like, Okay, you have to first, like, the first chapters two through four the book Start are acceptance. Like, accept the reality. Accept the other people are the way they are, and they're not going to change. And if you do that, then you can make a game plan that's based in reality, not in your delusions about what. Reality is, so that's like the first step. I mean,

10:04  I mean, dude, it's so funny. I just started coaching on a very small scale last year, mostly just to see if I liked it. I was like, I'm gonna really coach before, and let's just see if I like it, because I like mentoring people. It's like, a little bit different. And three months into it, I was talking to my partner. I was like, it's the same it's the same thing over and over. Does no one else hear the same question over? You know it's like, he's like, No, that's what it's like, right? But it is so much easier, at least in my experience. I'm curious. You feel this way. It's so much easier for me to see it in them than it is for me to see it in myself. I'm like, Oh, absolutely all your stuff, my stuff is real, like, I you know, it's like, very clearly seen the divide. Do you notice that as well? Oh, absolutely no. I can't tell you the number of times when I'm talking to my therapist or my coach and they tell me something, I'm like, I have told that to three people this week, and I still needed to hear it like, it's just like, yeah, we can't see ourselves. We have our blinders on and but, I mean, this is a, you know, what a coaching technique for those of you out there that try to help people, it's like, you ask them to say, like, hey, what would you tell your best friend if they were in your situation, and as soon as they put it in that situation, like, oh, I would tell them do this and this and this, yeah, but no, but my situation is different. Like, it's my best friend. They deserve something better. It's like, okay, well, that's a whole different thing that we're going to get into my therapist. God bless her. She's great. I don't, I don't see her anymore, but she's, she's a wonderful lady. And like her go to thing was, what would you tell your son in this situation? It was like, her go to your son said this. And I was like, well, that's not fair, because I, yeah, I care about him. And

11:58  so Okay, so I want to talk about, I want to talk about. So we've talked about your pivot from corporate. I have to share one story on that. Yeah. Please, please, yeah. You know, around the time I was deciding to quit Google to pursue coaching, I was having these doubts that are very natural. The ones we talked about for like, I am giving up a lot of money, a lot of job security, a very prestigious position that other people would kill for to pursue this thing just because I want to. And that seems very selfish, like I have responsibilities now I'm a dad, like, I gotta take care of my family. I gotta provide for my family. And my coach at the time was like, so is this the example you wanna provide to your son that he should stay at a job he hates that stresses him out for the money. Like, well, that was just mean, I pay you for this. This sucks, yeah, oh, my God. But I was like, boy, that made it clear in a hurry. Like, okay, yeah, such a

12:54  razor of just the second you project outwards, right? The second you start thinking about this is for someone else, or I'm doing this for someone else, it totally changes your mindset about it. So that kind of transitions into the question that I'm wondering about, which is that in your coaching practice, so you came from this, like I said, You were engineering, then you were doing forecasting. You're doing revenue analysis right very, you're very left brained in your sort of the topics that you're dealing with in your coaching work, like you talk about this at length in the book, which, again, the book is called, you have a choice. And it is, I'll just for people who ever read it, it is very, very tactical. Is such an over word, an overused words, but it's specific in the sense of, like, Here's an exercise, here's an exercise, here's a way to try this out. Here's a way to use this, right? It's not theoretical. It's not like lofty, you know, tower philosophizing. It is to the point we're trying to make an impact in your real life, but your coaching practice has incorporated so many different sorts of methodologies. We were joking about, you know, Lacanian psychoanalysis, but you pull from, seems like you pull from, like, somatic awareness, and you've pulled from internal family systems therapy. You've put you, I think I was reading recently, you sort of did a sort of trauma informed, sort of coaching training, and you're clearly drawing from all these different perspectives. I'm very curious. Was that there, when you started coaching, was that always going to be your approach? Yeah. So how did you come to that? Because I think that's pretty unique. How did you come to sort of take that approach to like you said, you're helping executives, and you're really going deep with them on so many different levels that aren't let me look at your revenue numbers and we'll figure it all out. How did you come to that place in terms of your sort of more holistic, integrated approach? Yeah,

14:56  well, I mentioned I did a coaching training, and it's a result of. Coaching training. At the time I was, you know, I was kind of rewind to 2016 I was where you are now. I was like, Oh, this coaching thing's interesting. I'm gonna try it with a couple people, see how it feels. And I interviewed a bunch of professional coaches at that point, like, Hey, this is cool. Like, how do I do more of this? I'm like, You should go get trained. Like, okay, where should I get trained? And they recommend a few places. And, like, a few of the places I looked at were just like, we are going to teach you world class coaching, and we're going to give you the techniques, and you follow our methodology. Are going to be great. I'm like, Okay, that sounds fine, yeah. And then new ventures West, which is the place I went, was like, we're going to dive deep into Eastern mysticism combined with neurological techniques to combine to transform you to a whole different self. I'm like, What the f are you talking about? And I was like, these people are like, way out there in some hippoo land that I don't understand. But there's, there was some bit that, like, again, that curiosity. I'm like, I don't understand it. Same thing, like, I don't get this, but there's something there, and I want to go understand this. See, now we know

16:00  everyone listen to this, they now know how to hook you. Man. They're just like, look, put that little thing in there. You're like, it doesn't make any sense. Like, you gotta grab onto it. That's awesome. I love, I love the story, narrative, arc that has emerged about this. I love that. Okay, so you're like, Yeah, I have to figure this. So I was intrigued by it. And I go into the coaching program, they're like, What do you want from this year? I'm like, I'm head first. I'm really good at the head, and I want to learn to go lead from the heart. And they're like, great, we can do that. And so my coaches and new ventures must help me with that, learning to listen to my heart, learning to act from my gut and my heart, rather than just from my left brain. Left brain. I can't even do left versus right anymore. And then once that door is opened, it just then the next step just appeared. I'm like, Oh, well, this immunity to change things, sounds interesting. Oh, internal family system sounds interesting. That's trauma aware and like. And the more I understood it, because my left brain still working, it's still integrating all this going, Oh, I see how this all fits together. I can explain this. And that's part of, again, what the book is about, it's like, I realized I was explaining this to a lot of different people, of how these different approaches can really help, and I could put it in language that was more concrete and actionable, right? Because that's what I needed. Like, I can't do the hippie woo, woo language, like, it just doesn't work for me. But like, when I translated into real, tangible things, you could do differently. People were like, Oh, this is actually really helpful. I'm like, Yeah, isn't it? Is that cool? And so again, I'm playing that role of translator a little bit. I'm like, exploring the hippie woo, woo stuff and then translating it into actionable, concrete things that people can

17:33  try. Yeah, it's I was so impressed in the book by your ability to take something that was, let's say, like, a book length treatise on whatever. And to say, here are three exercises, each of which have five steps that you can do in 15 minutes. Just do this one. Just do it right, because I think it's so easy, particularly for me, like, I'm sort of like you, like I'm, I've become more analytical as I get older. I don't know if that's a thing, certainly feels like it. And I'll dive into, you know, like Gen or any, anybody, and I'll just be like, let me understand it. And then I'll finish the book, and I'll be like, yeah, I really got that. And then I don't use it for anything, right? I just file it away. And the not gonna talk about this now, box, right? So really putting it into a tangible practice is so valuable because then you feel it, you know, I mean, you can get the benefit one way or the other. So when you work with executives, and I want, well, okay, well, let's, let's bring this to your course. You have, I think it is a cohort based course. It's all about becoming an effective executive, an effective executive. Trademark people. You can take that one if you want. Jesus, terrible anyway. But so this course, all about being an effective do it again, good executive.

18:58  So first off, when you work with people who want to become better executives, are you, are you finding that their primary obstacles are the right brain stuff or the left brain stuff? Is it? Is it like they've got the left brain on lock? It's that they don't know what they don't know in terms of the sort of more integrated approaches to these kind of things. Is that what's largely holding the back, or is it just totally different? Totally different purpose? I work with a lot of people more on the identity and limiting belief stuff I mentioned earlier. Of like, I got here by being the problem solver, by being the expert of the details, by being the one that works harder than everybody else. And like I said, those are great traits to have, and they will doom you at the executive level, because you're in all the details and you're trying to solve all the problems yourself. You're not giving your team a chance to do stuff, and you cannot scale an executive. So what I found I've been coaching executives for several years now, and I've found myself this is the wall each of them kept running into, and like your job has changed. Just you're doing your old job. That's not the job. That's not your job anymore. Your job is enabling other people. Your job is getting the work done through other people not to do the work yourself. You're very good at doing the work. I know you're good at doing the work. That's not your job anymore. Your job is enabling others to do the work. And I found myself saying this to like, dozens of people, you know, and so that's why, that's why I eventually came up with the idea of doing the class like, Okay, this is I'm saying the same thing to many people. This is clearly a common problem. Let me see if I can distill these teachings, these mindsets, these principles, into a class for people to take away and work on. And the class all that it's not as effective as one on one executive coaching, because in the coaching I can say, okay, here is the specific thing you as a person need to do to work on it for you right now. And the class is more, a little more generic by definition. But you know, I've done this long enough, I have a pretty good idea what the problems are, so it's still pretty helpful.

20:55  I mean, we were just talking about how, like, yeah, it turns out your problem isn't that unique. And most of the time when people are like, no, no, my situation is totally different. And here, let me tell you why, and then they tell you why. You're like, no, that's literally what the last 10 people all set, right? It's like exactly that, that barrier that you're talking about, is it that there's an underlying fear of because, by the way, so just just, I always point this out. This is the part of the podcast where Dan pretends to ask a question about other people secretly about, really, just for me, right? So I'm like, so all these different people who aren't me, but other people, is it that there's, is it they're like, an underlying fear of like, if they're not solving the problem, what like, their value goes away or no one else can solve the problem, everything's gonna fall apart. Is it's just like a it's sort of like an identity based fear, like, what underlies that inability to kind of make that shift that you want them to take all

21:53  of the above? It's unconscious fears. It's if it doesn't get done, I'll get blamed for it, so I better to do it, because that's why I can that's why I stay in control, particularly common one for engineers, just like, I could do this in four hours and it'll be a plus work. If I give it to somebody else, it's going to take them four days and it's going to be B minus work, right? So that's, that's clearly not the right answer. Like, that's just a bad trade, right? And it's like, yeah, it is a bad trade, but you got to do it anyway. Like, no, that's not logical. I'm like, Yeah, I know, but, but if you do that trade, but, like, then you coach them, and you teach them to get it from B minus to be work, and they four days to three days, and if you could coach them to where they could do it, the way you could do it. Now, there's two of you and three of you and four of you, and that's way better for the company than just one of you, because you're the boss. Because you're the bottleneck. You got to find another like. So that's the kind of thing where it's like, it's totally understandable. Like, oh, this presentation is going to the CEO. I better rewrite it myself to make sure it's up to par. Totally understandable. But if you do that for everybody, they never learn you're not helping other people get better. And that's the mindset shift that people are it's not about you anymore. It's about getting other people up to your level. And that's what I try to teach people in these executive coaching in the class.

23:11  I know we're coming up on time, and I do want to be respectful of your time, so we'll wrap it up, but I'm curious, like, how so if the fear, or if the obstacle is, like I said, unconscious in a large way, or it's rooted in their nervous system response, right? And it kind of almost means by definition, or maybe it doesn't. You can certainly push back on that, but you can't really think your way out of it, right? You can't just be like, well, let me just reason my way through it. So how do people get out of it? Is it that you have to go around the sort of the, you know, the metaphorical, the other way, and say, Hey, we're going to go nervous system first. Why don't you, you know, how do you lead people through that process of getting past that stuff? Because it seems like that's what stops people from changing. Yeah. I mean, I look for a small, safe experiment they can run to prove it's not as scary as they think it is. So it's like, yeah, maybe no, you don't let the presentation of the CEO gun go as poorly. But like, is there a presentation your team meeting? You can let them do that right the feedback, or you wouldn't trust them with the critical infrastructure

24:18  update, sure. But what's a smaller thing that you trust them to do, and then give them feedback, and it's like, where's the small, safe thing you could do? And so, you know, back to my point, like, what's your next actions? I'm not like, saying, like, here's something you should plan for a year on. Like, what are you gonna do different this week? Like, one common one from my I'm running executive cohort right now, and they're like, I'm like, somebody came in. It's like, Man, I just always end up with some work, like, okay, at the end of the meeting, instead of when there's next item, don't say yes. Like, ooh, but, but I always say yes. I'm like, Yeah, I know you're gonna point to somebody else and say, Hey, why don't you take that? Yeah, can I do that? I'm like, I don't know. Can you i. Let's try that. You do it. And someone says, Hey, you can't do that. No, no, you know, no, you can't do that. You know. Like, I actually had one of my clients try that. People are actually thanking him for giving work away because they're like, Oh, I feel so trusted now, because you never let me do anything.

25:17  This is the thing, right? That this is so commonly the case that the thing you're so scared of doing the moment you do it, other people are like, wow, that was really nice, or whatever. They just have the opposite reaction from what you fear. And that's how you get over the fear. Because you're like, wait, I tried it and I got a completely different reaction than I expected. And then it's then you try it one more time, and then you try it one more time and, like, all of a sudden it's like, oh, the like, Oh, this is actually a much better way to do things. Why haven't I been doing this? Yeah, but that's the other fear, because then it's like, then I have to admit the way I've been doing it is wrong. I don't want to admit that, so I better not change anything. Like, okay, that's a terrible reason, defense upon defense. Just I was in this, this group that was all about, it was like a four day little class that I did, and it was all about having not fights, but sort of like difficult conversations sort of thing. And they're like, Hey, you're gonna do a role play where you pick some random things, not doesn't matter, like, Hey, could you move your car because I'm backed in here, or whatever role plays, they do it the regular way, and then you're like, now I want you to role play it like the person you hate the most, just like the biggest jerk, and you're and people give them feedback. And like, I saw this guy who's like, I'm gonna be the biggest jerk this guy I hate is, and all the feedback he got was like, actually, that guy's pretty charismatic. We all like that guy quite a bit. Like, he was totally like, this. We like that guy. He was like, I had no idea, but, you know, my shadow is so attractive, or whatever. Yeah, it was really interesting to watch him kind of like, wake up to that. Yeah, I tell people who are like, people pleasers, like, I want you to be like a total jerk, because I think you're miscalibrated. Because they think, like, I'm gonna be such a jerk. I'll be all the way over here. I'm like, your total jerk. This is, like, maybe gets you to average, maybe probably, like, probably here. So, like, if you're jerky as you can imagine being, you might get to average.

27:11  So okay, so this will tie it back, and then we'll wrap it up. But, like, literally, I because I do, like Google ads and but I don't manage them anymore. I manage a team, not well, but I do so I manage a team, and Google Ads reps call me non stop, and it's really annoying. And I'm always like, there's an email. Send the email. I know my numbers on the thing. It's not me anymore. So, and so I was on a date with my wife. It was her birthday. I took her out to a nice lunch, for a nice lunch, my wife's birthday, Google's column, like, send it to thing. Like, Google's column, send it to thing. I'm like, okay, third time, I'm like, I don't know. Maybe my mom died and Google knows, and they're calling, I'm gonna pick up and I pick up the thing. And, you know, guy from Google, he's like, Hey, are you the one who manages such and such account? And I was like, No, I'm on a date with my wife. Email this thing. And he was like, Yes, but what if I email them and they don't get back to me? Can I call you back? And I was like, No, I don't manage this account email, I think I promise. So we're going back and forth, like fourth or five time. Finally, I'm like, I'm gonna put a stop to this. And I yelled, and I kind of not, yeah, come to a restaurant, but, you know, puffed up, and I in my head, I'm like, I'm screaming at this poor dude. And I know this, this just his job. I'm not mad at this guy, but I'm like, I've told you, blah, blah, blah, and I hang up, and I was like, I really gave it to that guy. And my wife was like, you were so polite to him, including when you were mad at him. Like, I was like, I think I said, I think I said, like, Hey buddy, you know, like, oh God, you know that guy is in shambles right now.

28:50  Dan, why is your number still on the account? You can change the number only. There was a book in a class that taught me how to be an effective executive. I did it again, effective. All right, so for so I want to ask a couple questions. So okay, we talked about the the book, of course, it's called, you have a choice. Eric narlik, you can go find it on Amazon or wherever you buy and find books. I can go check that out for sure. Like I said, I've read it. I've took a million highlights. I could not recommend it anymore highly. We've been talking about the class. So if people are curious about the class, where would they go to find it and kind of, what should they know to be like, Hey, is that the right fit for me? Yeah, the class is on an online platform called maven.com it's called become a more effective executive. The link will be in the show notes. Yeah, it's really, if you are a person, that's like, I'm such a hard worker. I'm such an expert. How come I can't get to that next level? How come I'm not getting those opportunities? This is the class for you. And if you're like, Well, I'm working too hard to do all this stuff, you're saying this. Is the class for you gonna talk about that? I'm gonna take this class. So who knows, if you listen to this and you jump in, I might be in your cohort, because I'm definitely gonna I need this advice. And we talk about too many trees.com, that's kind of your website. Is that where they would go to find out more about your coaching particularly, yeah, that's my coaching website. Go there to learn more about me, and then from there, if you want to just keep up with what I'm writing and reading in these areas of leadership and personal development, you can sign up for the newsletter from too many trees.com so just go there, put your name in the box and hit subscribe. Yes, I'm also a happy subscriber to the newsletter.

30:35  I have been, and I've been calling my newsletters lately. I mean, I've been calling him Eric's is still on there is one of my favorites, Eric narlik, thank you so much. This was such a blast. I really, I love the chance to get to know you a little bit, but I just really appreciate everything that you shared and your kind of openness about what you do. It's there's a lot of coaches. There are very few good coaches. I think you are absolutely one of that the best that there is doing it today. So thank you so much for that. Man, I really appreciate it. Thank you, Dan. I really appreciate the kind words and thank you for the conversation. I really enjoyed it. We went to a lot of lot of interesting ground. I love the way you tied it all together. So thanks for your questions and your connections. Man, I got so much value out of talking to Eric, and I've gotten so much value over the years out of his work. And was writing online. His book, you have a choice is wonderful. It is practical. He has specific exercises in every single chapter to help you actually implement the stuff that he's talking about. It's not, it's not a book that's filled with theory that you're never going to use. It is a book that's been, it's meant and written to have an impact on your life. Eric is a fascinating guy. He clearly lives a life that's driven by his values, and I was so excited to get to spend some time with him. So I hope you got a lot of value out of it. Please do go check out too many trees.com. That's Eric's website. Go buy the book. You have a choice. Let him know that I sent you, because I think he would get a kick out of that. So as always, you can find my writing online, talking about writing online. You can find mine writing in line online at better questions.co. Where I'm sharing the best of what I'm learning every single week is one email a week. I also let you know about these podcasts when they come out, so look better questions.co. Go subscribe. I want people to be in there so I can be in your your eye holes once a week, because I do think long form writing, thinking about reading, thinking about learning. These things are so critical to living an effective life, and I want that for you. So better questions.co. That's where you go to do that. Go check out all of Eric's stuff. And as always, guys, I really appreciate you being here every single week. It means the world to me, to everyone who drops me comments and sends me messages. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate it. So thank you for that, and I will talk to you next week, cheers. You.