Connection Is the New Currency with Jason Yeh, Part 1

This week, Dan sits down with Jason Yeh, founder of Scaling Freedom, to talk about identity, resilience, and rediscovering purpose through AI. Jason opens up about going against expectations, getting laid off, and why community has become the most vital part of his entrepreneurial path.

This is a personal and practical conversation on how Jason helps business owners bring AI into their work in ways that are human, useful, and deeply thoughtful — including a clear “Three A’s” framework you won’t want to miss.

Don’t miss this if you’ve ever wondered how to connect clarity, technology, and meaning — especially in times of uncertainty.

Show Highlights:

• Why Jason asks “What do you like to do?” instead of “What do you do?” [02:25]
• Growing up under pressure — and choosing his own way anyway [06:00]
• The defining moment: delaying graduation for a surprise study abroad [13:07]
• How getting laid off (again) led Jason to AI and entrepreneurship [17:24]
• The power of hiking, reflection, and reconnecting with community [20:13]
• Jason’s clear and useful “3 A’s” framework for AI: Automation, Answers, Advice [30:00]
• His #1 tip to beat prompt paralysis — “Have AI interview you” [34:14]
• Why connection is core to Jason’s business philosophy [27:22]

For more updates and my weekly newsletter, hop over to https://betterquestions.co/

To learn more about Jason Yeh, check out the websites below: 

https://scalingfreedom.ai/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonjyeh/

 Transcript:

[00:00:07] All right. Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Dan Barrett podcast, where every week I'm interviewing the coolest people I can find about the most interesting stuff I can come up with. This week we are digging into the world of AI. Uh, really trying to get down to the bottom of what the possibilities are in this technology, how people can actually use it in real world workflows.

[00:00:32] And I couldn't have anyone better on the show to talk about that than my guest this week. And that is Jason Yeh. He's here from Scaling freedom.ai and you can find him also on LinkedIn. His LinkedIn is Jason. The letter J and then Yeh, YEH. So Jason J Yeh on LinkedIn. Now Jason has a deep background in making actual business operations work, but I immediately wanted to reach out with him to him because I could see that he was a systems person.

[00:01:05] And he brings a systems thinking mindset to AI that I think is super refreshing. Plus, he is a super kind, super generous, super authentic person that is so rare to find in this industry. So, without any further ado, I cannot wait for you to check out my interview with Jason from ScalingFreedom.ai

[00:01:28] Alright, what's up everybody? This is Daniel Barrett and I am here with Jason Yeh, he is from ScalingFreedom.ai and you can also find him on LinkedIn at, uh, linkedin.com/jasonjyeh That is spelled YEH. Jason, welcome to the show, man. I'm so happy to have you here and, uh, excited to dig in a little bit. 

[00:01:50] Yeah, pump to be here, Dan.

[00:01:51] Um, awesome to have an awesome conversation. 

[00:01:54] Yeah. So, uh, let's, let's start with what you do. 

[00:02:00] You've had a couple different roles that are all all really kind of fascinating. You are a three times founder, if I'm correct. So I want to dig into the question that I'll typically start these interviews with, which is, you're at a networking event, you're at a dinner party, you walk up to somebody and they're like, so what do you do?

[00:02:18] Which is like the, just the standard they're trying to connect. So like, how do you answer that question for people now? 

[00:02:25] Yeah. Thanks Dan. You know, it's, it's, it's funny you ask that question because typically when I hear that question, I, I get a little bit of cringe and, and, uh, and I, I, you know, I, I think I added a tweak to that question, um, somewhat recently.

[00:02:43] And, and it's just, it's a slight tweak and instead of saying, Hey, what do you do? It's like, what do you like to do? Oh, that's cool. Yeah. And I, I found that that typically, uh, brings people's guards down a little bit. Yeah. You know, just getting them talking about what they enjoy doing and they could take it in any direction.

[00:03:03] Right. Um, so anyways. Alright, well let, let me turn 

[00:03:08] around then. So what do you like to do? Okay. What is your, yeah. What do you like to do? 

[00:03:13] Yeah, so, uh, first and foremost, I'm a father. I'm a dad, dad of two boys. Um. And, uh, I'm, I'm a husband as well to my lovely wife and, uh, they occupy a lot of my mind space and a lot of what I do today is because of them.

[00:03:31] Um, and just wanting to build a better future for, for my boys as well. So, and then outside of that, I'm a huge LA Clippers fan. Uh, grew up in the Orange County, Los Angeles area. All my buddies were Lakers fans. And I'm more of a underdog guy. So I've been a Clippers fan. This dates me since the mid nineties, so like the 94, 95 season is when I started following the clips.

[00:03:58] Cool. 

[00:03:59] Yeah. 

[00:04:00] So do you, all right, I wanna ask about that. First of all, do you feel like that was a decision or was that like a family thing where you were just kind of like, I have to do this because this is what my family does? Or was it were, did you, did you actively decide to root for the Clippers over the Lakers?

[00:04:18] You know, 

[00:04:19] I, I think it was pretty immediate. Um, you know, it was, it was just like, okay, what does everyone, like, I'm going to like the opposite team, or not opposite team, but I'm gonna like the team that doesn't get enough love. Um, and I, I think, thanks for that question because I, I think that narrative has served me well through different inflection points, um, in my life.

[00:04:44] Um, it's like trying to figure out what is a default path that everyone is taking. Does it make sense? And how do I carve out the path that most resonates with me? 

[00:04:59] Yeah, it's interesting. I was wondering if that was gonna be the case, right? Because I think for, there's a certain kind of person, and I, I think I would put you in that category, particularly now where you are very comfortable doing your own thing or like, if you're like, this, this is the thing that feels right to me and that's what I'm gonna do.

[00:05:19] Even if that kind of involves going off script from what everybody else is doing, and you kind of seem like you have that kind of independent thinking mode. So I was really curious. It does seem like you've had that since a very young age. You just feel like that's, that's in your blood somehow. Like that comes very easily to you, it seems.

[00:05:39] Yeah. So, you know, this, this, this surface as you were asking a question, and something I haven't shared too broadly with my friends or even my community, is that, uh, growing up there was this, um. My, my mom was constantly nagging at me. Um, but from [00:06:00] her perspective, she was supporting me, right? In hindsight, being on the other side, I, I do think I was able to use this as a gift.

[00:06:07] And what I mean by that is, like any typical Asian family, she, um, she was very directive in what she wanted me to do. Hey, Jason, go take violin lessons, go, um, you know, ask every Asian kid growing up, like, you know, it's like discipline, you know, put in your two to three hours on, on, on the strings, um, you know, no play until that's completed.

[00:06:30] So very, very, um. Kind of regimented and, and structured. Um, and then even in college, she was trying to direct my career path. Um, and it was, you know, either like, Hey, go, go, um, you know, kick butt in your biology class so you can pave a path towards medical school, right? Mm-hmm. Um, and I'm like, I don't know, mom.

[00:06:52] It, it's, it's not for me. I, I don't, I'm not feeling it, you know? And she's like, give it a try. Give it a try. And, uh, she's like, okay, well how about, um, you know, what about being a CPA? Right? Because, you know, if you're a CPA, you'll never have to worry about putting food on the table. You know, you're always gonna have to pay taxes, right?

[00:07:08] Uh, I'm like, yeah, mom. I know. Um, I know that makes sense. It is just, you know, I took an accounting class and it was just so boring to me. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And then the same thing, I'm like, okay, well what about law? You know? And um, so I actually considered law for a hot second. And, uh, I did, um, undeclared back in college.

[00:07:27] I did a little bit of pre-law. Int at, um, a law firm and did some other, um, public defender type work. And I was just looking at the faces of these senior partners and realizing that, man, they're really not happy. And do I wanna, can I envision myself being in their shoes 10, 20 years from now? And I'm like, this is not it.

[00:07:51] Yeah. And so where I'm going with the story is I've, I've made a, I made my life decisions a lot on [00:08:00] doing the opposite of what my mom said. 

[00:08:03] Oh, okay. That's interesting. So it's so fascinating, right? Because you, you're just telling your story about your mom, which by the way, I really appreciate like how open you are with like, telling your own story.

[00:08:13] And the, the best of these conversations are where we get right into this kind of stuff. And like, we'll get to like what you do with like what, how you make money, your money and all that stuff, right? But it's like all that personal stuff, it always ends up coming across as so everybody connects to that, right?

[00:08:29] In a, in a profound way. So I appreciate you being open and, and sharing all that. It's interesting, you know, in, in you talking about what your mom wanted for you, right? It's almost like I, I, you can hear her. Concerns behind that, right? So I was like, oh, you should be a CPA. Well, why should I be a CPA?

[00:08:47] Because you're never gonna have to worry about putting food on the table. Like that's a very particular kind of concern, right? Mm-hmm. Or like, people always gotta pay their taxes, you know what I mean? There's like a, there's a real drive for certainty and security behind those concerns. And it's, it sounds like you, from a very young age, you, you were more concerned with what you thought was interesting or what you thought, I don't wanna say like self-actualizing, but you, you're sort of expressing something deeper and you did.

[00:09:16] Was that, do you feel, did you feel that conflict as, as a younger kid? Like, did you, did you sense that, that that's what it was? 

[00:09:23] Yeah, a hundred percent. Um, I think curiosity drove me. Yeah. Um, and, um, and I've, I've always had this knack of just fixing things around the house, like, um, even, um, from a young age, I remember.

[00:09:41] I must have been in first or second grade, uh, early nineties. I remember my dad brought home this giant desktop computer. Mm-hmm. And, uh, it was, I, I think, I think when I turned it on, it was like Windows 3.1. I don't know if you remember that. [00:10:00] Um, and so that was my first operating system, and there was this little button that, it was a turbo button on next to the on button.

[00:10:10] And if I pushed it, it went from 50 hertz to 75 hertz. And I was, I thought it was the coolest thing. And the fan 

[00:10:17] kicks 

[00:10:17] on to like, yeah. 

[00:10:18] 7 million, uh, rotations per second or whatever. Yeah, yeah. 

[00:10:21] And, but I remember it took so long to load, right? It you, you would just see the Windows icon and it would just be there forever.

[00:10:30] Um, but I, you know, I, I just wanted to figure things out. Um, and I think you, I, I think my dad for bring a computer home. For me, because I, I not, I didn't just play games on it. I actually took my computer apart. Um, oh, cool. So, you know, I, you know, I, I also started to customize it because I wanted to play more powerful games over time.

[00:10:52] I eventually upgraded it, uh, from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95. Yeah. Right. Yeah. You, 

[00:10:58] you know, 

[00:10:58] you know, anytime for the gamers out there, you, you know, you gotta, you just gotta add more memory. You gotta add more ram, you gotta build more hard drive space. Um, so, you know, yeah, I, I think, I think curiosity 

[00:11:11] drove me.

[00:11:12] Yeah. It's, it's fascinating to me too, like how many tech people where you, the start the, the sort of on-ramp into tech is like, it's, there's a fun thing I want to do with the computer, and in order to do the fun thing, there's a certain amount of barriers in front of me, and I have to figure out how to overcome those barriers.

[00:11:34] Right? Like, we had head leak on here, who is a. Really very prominent sort of Google ads, uh, coach and consultant. And his whole thing was he is like, he wanted to play competitive quake and so to play, you know, he just, he started buying, he started building computers and selling them to make money to fund his own, you know, competitive quake setup.

[00:11:54] Right. That's so cool. Yeah, it just started on that thing. So I love that story. So like, when, [00:12:00] when did let, let me ask you this question. Now we're sort of transitioning a little bit to your adulthood, but I'm curious, like, now, is your mom still with us? Like do you Yes. Okay. So now when you talk to your mom about what you do, is she, like, I knew it all along, I nailed it.

[00:12:16] Like, we got it. Or like, is she still like, have, maybe have you thought about med school? Like, you know, how does she feel about it now? 

[00:12:24] Yeah. It's so funny. Um, you mentioned that I, I think she, I think she gave up on trying to, I mean, she still, she still tries to direct me and her. Motherly way. Um, but I think in terms of directing major decisions, I think she's given up on that.

[00:12:40] She's seen the, she's seen the pattern. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I, um, yeah, I, I remember this other example that, um, it's coming up for me now is, um, you know, in college a lot of of my friends were studying abroad and it was like the thing to do. Okay. At least in my circles. And I, I missed the, the core timing. Like most college students study abroad, I would say sometime in between their first and third year of college.

[00:13:07] I waited until the very last possible moment and I was about to graduate, and I'm like, I think I'm gonna delay graduation. Oh, okay. Yeah. And I'm not gonna graduate so I can do the study abroad thing. And, um, so one day I, I just showed up at my mom's door and I was like, Hey, mom. Uh, I am going to fly to Hong Kong and I'm leaving next week.

[00:13:31] Uh, I've already made the decision. I know you're probably not gonna be happy about this. And she's like, what? She's like, what happened to, you know, your, you know, your job? Like, I thought you were gonna start your real estate career. Um, and I'm like, yeah, uh, I'm putting that on hold. Uh, and uh, I'll, I'll see you later.

[00:13:51] I'm, 

[00:13:52] I'm on my way to 

[00:13:52] the airport right 

[00:13:53] now. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so yeah, like I, I think looking back, um, and even now, [00:14:00] you know, I even though in the moment I was some, sometimes I was like just, oh my gosh, mom, please get off my back, right? Mm-hmm. But now I'm just grateful for Yeah. Uh, you know, her steer. 'cause I'm like, the, the other way I was thinking about this was like, well, I think this is what she wants for me.

[00:14:20] And it's probably conventional advice, but is this really the right path for me? 

[00:14:26] It's almost like, it's interesting, right? Because sometimes like advice like that, right? Sometimes it's the right advice and you're like, oh, I'm glad I took that advice. I'm glad someone was there to, to give it to me, right?

[00:14:39] Yeah. And then other times too, it's like when it's not right for you, sometimes it, it actually forces you to figure out what you want because it's like, well, I know I don't want that. So the question is, well then what? Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like, you're like, well, you're not gonna med school, you're not gonna to law school, you're not going to CPA school.

[00:14:57] Like, what are you doing Jason? You know what I mean? Like, what's the deal? So it's, it's kind of a fascinating term, particularly we get into adulthood, right? Because I kind of a similar relationship with, with my dad was the kind of person like this, uh, not quite as direct as it sounds like your mom was.

[00:15:14] But it was the kind of thing where, where as I became an adult, I was able to, I. Kind of look past those things and be like, now I'm grateful for what you did for me. And like, I wouldn't be this person if it wasn't for you hundred percent. And now, you know, in this moment we can actually just connect, right?

[00:15:32] Mm-hmm. And just feel that together as people rather than as the sort of structural relationships where it's like father, son, mother, son, whatever it is. Yeah. Um, so, okay. So I wanna ask you, so you, you have this relationship with your mom, you're doing all these things in college. You're clearly someone who is willing to do your own thing.

[00:15:51] You are willing to, um, set your own course. So how did you end up moving into tech? You've done a bunch of different [00:16:00] things in the tech space, right? So what were you studying in college primarily? Like what was your field of study? 

[00:16:05] Yeah, so studied, did psychology. 

[00:16:07] Okay, perfect. So that's how you got into, you know, that's how you get into tech.

[00:16:11] That's how we do it. So like, what was your, what was your on-ramp into, obviously you were technical, right? You were building your own computers as a kid. You were, you were doing all this stuff all along, but what was, when did you start to realize like, that might be something you wanted to do as a career?

[00:16:25] You know, Dan, um, I, I feel like my path is very, um, traditional in a sense, um, but with a twist. And if, if you look at my career background, I've been working professionally for almost two decades. Um, and so I, I would say that I've, I've always done entrepreneurial things on the side with the backstop of a W2.

[00:16:55] Okay. And yeah. And, um, and it wasn't until recently that I, I, I made a decision. I'm like, okay. I think it's time to, I, I think it's time to really go all in and try to figure out this path, this new path for me. Um, and, and this path wasn't well-defined. It wasn't, it wasn't a conscious decision, you know, on its own.

[00:17:24] Um, and I was actually laid off over the holidays. Oh, wow. Yeah. So this most recent holidays, 2024, uh, late November into early December. And my wife at the time wasn't, um, she wasn't working. She was primarily with, uh, the boys. And so it was, it was a shock to my system. Um, no. Wait, I just wanna 

[00:17:50] back up a second.

[00:17:50] Yeah. So your, 

[00:17:51] are your kids, are they twins? No, they're, they're, they're really close apart. They're 17 months apart. Okay. Alright. So she, she 

[00:17:58] was pregnant at the time though, you were laid [00:18:00] off over the holidays 

[00:18:01] that No, she wasn't pregnant, but, but I mean, my, I mean, my oldest is three, my youngest is one and a half.

[00:18:05] Okay. So they're really young. 

[00:18:06] All right. Well, basically still pregnant because they're not independent by any means. Okay. So, okay, great. So that sounds incredibly hard to, to get that news, like right at that particular time, like both in your family and the year and everything. That sounds intense. 

[00:18:23] Yeah.

[00:18:24] Yeah. It was, it was very unnerving. Um, and then, you know, the, the thing I haven't really shared with, um, my friends or community is that this is the third time I've been laid off, uh, throughout in, in, in my career. And, and you know, each time it happens, it never feels good regardless of whatever the reason is.

[00:18:46] And I, I was just like. What's the number one way I can bulletproof my career? And all roads just pointed to ai. 

[00:18:59] I mean, that's, that's such a fascinating can thing, right? Because I think so often, so often we're driven by necessity, right? To find the things that really serve us and really end up being, um, the vehicle that kind of takes us through, you know, I don't wanna say takes us through life, but kind of takes you to the next stage of your life, maybe.

[00:19:22] Mm-hmm. So, I, I wanna ask about that moment particularly because I think I'm always fascinated by, you know, I told you, but before this podcast, I was doing a podcast in real estate. Mm-hmm. Um, so many of the people that I interviewed in real estate who are really successful today, I'd be like, so when did you get your start?

[00:19:41] And they were like, 2008 or like 2007. It was always like, around then, you know what I mean? Like, they, they had, they had just started and then immediately went through like the worst time of their entire life and then like, kind of built this thing. So, all right. So you, you get laid off it, it's the holidays.

[00:19:57] It sounds like this incredibly kind of [00:20:00] tense moment. Like you said, you've had this kind of background where you're like, oh, this keeps happening. Mm-hmm. So what did you, like, did you immediately sit down? You were like, here's the next like five year plan. Like what, you know, like what was your, like, how did you move through that?

[00:20:13] Was it like took you week just to get back on your feet? Like what, what was that like for you? 

[00:20:19] Uh, you know, after it happened, I just needed to take a break from the computer and my. My retreat is usually nature. Um, and so I, you know, I think it was, uh, middle of the day, uh, I think I just, I took 

[00:20:37] my oldest son and we went for a hike in, in, um, a nearby park and I just, I was like, Hey, this is kind of cool.

[00:20:45] It was Wednesday, middle of the afternoon, I could do this. You know, I don't have any, you know, uh, pressures from, you know, work and it's just nice to just disconnect. Um, and the other thing that I did was just reaching out to my community, reaching out to friends and just having conversations to catch up and learning about what they're up to and, um, doing learning about just different industries, coffee chats and, and all that.

[00:21:14] And I would say things kind of happened, uh, more organically and um, and it was also. Kind of spurred on by my interest in learning ai. So starting January, um, I started attending AI conferences. Um, I decided to take, uh, a few courses to just level up as quickly as possible. Yeah. And sort of that intersection between learning, kind of attending conferences and then coffee chats with my friends, that, that Venn diagram started to create opportunities.

[00:21:50] And so, uh, a typical conversation might be like, Hey, you know, I, I have a conversation with you, Dan. We're just catching up. I'm learning about, [00:22:00] you know, your personal life, business, et cetera, and I'm sharing what I'm learning through my AI journey. And, and they're basically like, well, Jace, why don't you, why don't you do this for me?

[00:22:09] You know, can you help me solve this problem? Right. I'm like, you know, I don't know if I can, but I'll give it a shot. So that's how I got started. 

[00:22:17] I love that. That's like, uh, there's a very similar like the. The times that I've gotten hired to do AI stuff are almost entirely like me just being like, you could do this, you could do that.

[00:22:28] And then someone's like, why don't you just do that? And I'm like, I don't know if I can do that. I, no, you know, it can't be done. 

[00:22:34] Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:34] Um, dude, I love, I love the story of going on the hike with your son, um, because I do think that Nate nature is such a profound, like, I, I don't wanna say like cleansing thing, but it's like a reset point, right?

[00:22:48] Mm-hmm. Like my, 

[00:22:48] um, 

[00:22:49] my, my favorite hypnotist, uh, Milton Erickson is like probably the, the godfather of, uh, modern hypnotherapy, whereas the most famous hypnotherapist or whatever. He was sort of famous for this thing that he would do. Like if you went to go see him and you wanted to be his patient. 'cause you know, he got very famous towards the end of his life.

[00:23:10] Um, he would be like, you know, he'd listen to your issues, you know, and say like, well, what brings you here? And he'd be like, got it. You know, I, I, I think I can help you. First thing I want you to do is I want you to go and like, climb this mountain that was next to his office. Basically like a mountain you could hike.

[00:23:25] It's like a two hour hike to the top of this mountain. Mm-hmm. And, uh, not, you know, not, you're not climbing by your fingernails or whatever, but it's not an easy hike either. Mm-hmm. And, uh, you know, people would, they'd kind of gripe and complain the entire way. Mm-hmm. And, but what they would find is like by the time they got to the top of the mountain, they'd kind of been through this very beautiful area where they're walking through nature and they're seeing, you know, trees and they kind of get out to the top and they can see this, this big vista.

[00:23:51] They would just like completely let go. Right. Like they would get to the top and it was like everything would just. Wash away for [00:24:00] them. And it was this kind of dual thing where for him it was like, well, I know you're serious about being my patient 'cause you actually went to climb this two hour thing that had nothing to do with anything.

[00:24:11] But like, by the time they got to the top, like half of them would just be like, I actually don't even think I need to go anymore. You know what I mean? Like, they've been like, I just feel like completely free. So I love that story and I love that that's kind of the beginning of your thing. And then the other thing I got from that story is like, just the importance of being able to be connected, right?

[00:24:32] Like you said, it's, you're learning, you're growing and you're connecting on a human level with friends. Mm-hmm. And you are having conversations with people, right. Which is such a critical part of it. A hundred percent. Um, 

[00:24:44] so, okay. Can I, can I, can I share, can I share something, um, that sparked something that came at the end there.

[00:24:50] You know, this is, you know, I, I wish it wasn't this way. Um. I almost feel, um, a little guilty for sharing this publicly, but this is the most connected I feel to my community, like in my professional career. 

[00:25:07] Yeah. 

[00:25:08] And what I mean by that is, um, I think when you're an entrepreneur, it takes I think, a lot of vulnerability to put yourself out there, to tell the world, Hey, what you're doing and how you can solve their problems.

[00:25:24] Um, but also just sharing some of the challenges and struggles as well. Right? Because it's, it's also, you know, you know, I, I, I worked in very large enterprises, you know, fortune 500 companies all the way to Series C startup. And in an organization you have, uh, a community, a tribe, right? But when it's your own company, it's, it, the journey is different, you know?

[00:25:48] And so it's required me to. Um, be more vulnerable. It's required me to reach out to my community and, um, you know, a lot, a lot of my initial and early success [00:26:00] right now is because of my community and friends. So yeah. None of this would be possible. So 

[00:26:04] I I love that, man. I, uh, and because being an entrepreneur can be very isolated mm-hmm.

[00:26:10] Which is like a, a thing that I think not a lot of people get. I had a, a really great friend of mine and a business mentor, this guy Jeff Moore, incredible business person, right. Like worked in, um, essentially like acquire ingredients and sort of foods and, and meets for restaurants. And a very successful guy.

[00:26:30] And, uh, he'd always say, an entrepreneur alone is an entrepreneur at risk. And he'd always be like, you know, just like you said, right. Having that community, having that connection is, it's such a critical thing. We kind of forget about it because we lionize this image of like, 

[00:26:44] yeah, 

[00:26:45] I did it, but my. So for, you know, meanwhile you got a company of like 5 million people and it makes zero sense at all.

[00:26:53] But that's kind of how we like to think about it. Yeah. Um, do I can, I can just kind of tell too, by your energy, you seem like the kind can kind of see that even from these stories, right? Where you are connecting with people and people are, are kind of asking you for things. It, it kind of just shows me that people really value that sense of connection that they get from you.

[00:27:14] And I think that's amazing. That's a rare quality in business people for sure, and I think in tech in general. So I think that's amazing. 

[00:27:22] Thanks Dan. Um, I, I, one of my favorite sayings is, uh, care about the person before the work. Yeah. And that's the way I've led teams in the past. So I, I, I always think, uh, and maybe this goes back to my interest in psychology, is I think a lot of it, um, a lot of the work that we do is, um, I.

[00:27:43] Not as impactful without first understanding the person behind the work. 

[00:27:47] Oh, I love that so much. I love that so much. Well, okay, well let's, let's talk about AI a little bit. That's what you're doing now. So we talked a little bit about your company, which is called Scaling Freedom. You can find [00:28:00] that@scalingfreedom.ai.

[00:28:01] And, uh, they can reach out to you via that site. And it talks a little bit about what you do. Um, but let's kind of let, let's kind of talk about what you do. I, I think your approach is so refreshing because I think most people think of AI as. Almost like a technology that eliminates the human element of work, right?

[00:28:20] Mm-hmm. So it's kind of like, it's perceived as this kind of bulldozer that gets rid of everything that's human, human and anything. And it's just like, okay, so let, let's start with scaling freedom. Just give people the kind of, you know, that's standard kind of elevator thing of like, what does scaling freedom do for folks?

[00:28:38] And it's, I will say, to compl, to, to cut you off before you even start talking. Uh, I think kind of what you do is very custom in many of its iterations, right? Mm-hmm. So it might be a little hard to describe, but Yeah. Um, you know, sure. How would you describe what Scaling Freedom does for folks? 

[00:28:53] Yeah. Um, I'll give the TLDR Scaling Freedom empowers founders and business owners to adopt and implement AI into their business in a practical and non hypey way.

[00:29:05] I like non, that's non 

[00:29:07] hype is, that's cool. Alright, so that, so that makes sense to me. Mm-hmm. Um, but for people who are, because this must be the question that you get all the time, right? Mm-hmm. So what does that mean? Like, if you're gonna integrate AI into my business, I saw some stat recently, which is still is Israel.

[00:29:24] It's like the vast majority of Americans have never used chat GBT, and if they've used it, they've used it once. 

[00:29:30] Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:31] You know, so people think like, okay, I have a chat bot in my business. Like, what does AI integration actually look like for you today? Like, what, what do you think are the sort of main ways that people are integrating AI or maybe coming to you and asking you to help them with that?

[00:29:47] Yeah, yeah. Um, happy to share a few frameworks and, uh, I find frameworks being incredibly helpful just as a, um, a quick way to grasp information. Um, and one, um, I. One [00:30:00] framework, uh, it's, it's known as three As. So if you think about, and I, I borrowed this concept from this Kellogg Professor Matthew Grow. Um, and the foundational layer, what most people think about AI is automation.

[00:30:16] Yeah. So, you know, think about automating way, repetitive tasks, manual tasks, et cetera. And even before ai, you could do that, right? Uh, a lot of, um, my data and analytics experience, uh, in the past was figuring out how to automate business process. And you don't need AI for that. You just need to have clean data.

[00:30:36] Foundations. Um, beyond that, let's say second A is you can start using AI for answers. So this is what most people are familiar with when they're interfacing with Chad, GBT. I ask you a question, you gimme an answer. Mm-hmm. Right? The third, A, is I think where the true value is. And I think most people don't spend enough time in.

[00:30:59] This is the advice bucket. So automation answers advice, and another way to think about advice is insights. So how can I leverage AI as my thought partner to almost make me superhuman in a way to level up my thinking, the way I problem solve and the way I deconstruct problems? I, I think that's where the true value is.

[00:31:23] Think about it for a business owner, right? Um, if you just load your company, let's say employee handbook or the way of answering customer questions right into a database, q and a is very, it is relatively straightforward, but how do you truly achieve that 10 x level of thinking, right? To say, Hey, take a look at all these customer insights.

[00:31:50] Take a look at the work, the goal that I'm trying to solve, and then how do I actually. Take my company from where it's at today [00:32:00] to achieve the goals I want to achieve in the next six to 12 months, for instance. 

[00:32:06] Yeah, it's interesting, the, I love that framework. I think you explained that so well. I had a remind, I had a conversation with an employee just last week where I kept being like, you know, I was like, Hey, you know, I pay for, I pay for you to have access to the pro version.

[00:32:26] Yeah, yeah. I was like, because she is, she's like, oh, you know, I have this technical problem and I, I feel like I could do it, but the guy, the guy who knows how to do the thing, he's not, he's never like in Slack at the same time she is. And so she's like constantly frustrated and I was like, I was like, what if, you know, Patty, what if you had a real amazing tech person who was on call 24 7?

[00:32:47] And she, she was like. Yeah, she didn't get what I was saying. And she's like, yeah, but who's gonna be available 24 7? And I was like, let me introduce you to Chad, you know, GPT, you know. Um, but we, you know, after talking with her for a while, what I realized was she was using it like Google. So she, she would be like, WordPress integration help.

[00:33:08] Like, she would just type that in and she would get nothing useful back. Yeah. And so we real, we really had to work on here's, you know, here's how you can ask questions and here's, you can go back and forth and just because you didn't like the first answer doesn't mean you have to stay with that one. You can ask for revisions and by the end we got to this point where I was like, and now you can ask it.

[00:33:30] Okay. Like, that was how you wanted to solve the problem. You could ask it, is there a different way to solve this problem or a better way to solve this problem? Right. What are you not even aware of? 

[00:33:40] Yes. 

[00:33:40] That you can get out of it. So, I mean, I love that framework 'cause I think you're right. A lot of the value comes from like, well, what's the thing I don't even know about?

[00:33:48] So I can't even think of it as an option. Right? Yep. At least throw it to me and maybe we can look into it. 

[00:33:54] Yep. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's exactly that. And I, I don't, I don't know if you found this in your, [00:34:00] uh, circles, Dan, I, when I talk to people about ai, there's almost like this writer's block mentality. It's like they stare at this prompt or this blank screen, and it's like this blinking cursor, and it's like, well, what do I prompt?

[00:34:14] What, like what, how do I, how do I get started? And it's almost like, um, it is like they're, they're feeling stuck because they don't know. You know? I guess this is why there's a whole art and science to prime engineering. Um, and I, and my, my, my guidance is like, what if instead of trying to figure out what to prompt, what if you turn the tables around, why don't you ask AI to interview you?

[00:34:40] Yeah. You prompt me. Yeah, you prompt me. Yeah. That's awesome. And, and I, and I, and I think, um, that's my number one tip is like, it, it's, it's that like how I interview you and I think some of the latest models are getting really good and they're automatically doing that. Yeah. Um, upfront. So 

[00:35:00] I have noticed a lot of, uh, it's constantly tagging at the end of an answer.

[00:35:05] It's like, you know, be like, I need direct you. I'll make something up. I need directions to Wendy's or whatever. And it'll be like, here directions to Wendy's. And it's like, do you want me to help you with your order at Wendy's? And I'm like, no, I'm good. You know, good. That's too much. It's too much far. I need to follow up.

[00:35:21] It's like, do you want me to eat that for you? I'm like, oh, um, yeah. It's so interesting. I love that you, you, you pointed out the, the Writer's Block idea. Uhhuh. I never thought of it like that. That's a really neat 'cause. It is. It can do anything. And anything that can do anything is a little, it's like, well, what do you do with it?

[00:35:39] You know what I mean? Yeah. It's like, well, anything or like what, but yeah, so I, I have found myself more and more just like, I'll put the voice memo thing on my phone and I will just brain dump for like 10 minutes and then just copy, paste all that in there. I'm like, do something with this. It's like, okay, you're a mess, but here's what I would [00:36:00] suggest.

[00:36:00] You know, and like, kind of going that way, because I do think that the whole, the chat interface that we seem to have landed on with generative ai, which is cool, and I, I never really, I. I don't think, if you'd asked me 10 years ago, I would've thought that we were all using like chat interface so much, right?

[00:36:19] Mm-hmm. But it is interesting because it brings up almost this like existential problem of how do you know the right question to ask, right? Like forming good questions, really good questions is a profound problem, right? Like you, you have to describe the problem space and understand the problem space enough to even know what you need to know.

[00:36:44] Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:44] And it kind of gets at all these like kind of deep issues with knowledge.

[00:36:49] Hey guys. I hope you enjoyed the first part of this episode. It's just too good to limit to just one show. Join us next week to enjoy the rest.